Question / Help Weird Instant De-Sync late into Recording/Streaming Please Help

[MrBayeasy]

I have experienced this issue for the past 2-3 streams depending how you look at it. It began essentially when I streamed Halo CE but the desync seemed to be because it was just an old game and the de-sync was present from the beginning. However ever since then I have had 3 consecutive streams where a singular instant seems to de-sync my game audio from the gameplay, it looks like a frame skip.

I have never seen this before, it isn't gradual it just happens at a seemingly random point (it might gradually de-sync after that though, I cant tell) in the recording/stream session (I have listed the moments that it appears to happen on my recent streams below) The de-sync is in the stream vod as well as the recorded vod.

I have a 2 PC streaming setup where I use NDI to send my game and game audio from my gaming rig over to my streaming rig as a replacement for my cap card.

I have linked my log files for both the streaming rig and gaming rig, however it would seem that for some reason I am missing my gaming rig's initial apex stream (when I noticed it first) and my Halo CE stream (the first time that I had significant de-sync in a game that couldn't be fixed by restarting my gaming rig's obs to reset it)

The dates that correspond as well as the titles are the same session (which should be only the latest Apex Stream and the Fortnite Stream, as the First Apex stream and Halo are missing on my gaming rig logs)

Here are the links to the VODs where I believe the desync originates, in case you guys can recognize the issue based on how it looks at the moment of de-sync (its noticeable, like a skip of some kind, please go back a few seconds from the listed time to ensure you catch it) the video links should take you right to the intended time. The examples are most visually noticeable on the first Apex Stream listed and the Fortnite Stream listed below (at the time of posting the third example is still processing and thus will likely need to be updated)

Apex Legends - 3:15:15 (6-13-2019) - https://youtu.be/AxeDfDVbYtE?t=11715
Fortnite - 3:25:19 (6-14-2019) - https://youtu.be/v0haGddtVG0?t=12318
Apex Legends - 2:48:15 (6-15-2019) - https://youtu.be/cCAKLYTD_44?t=4121 (I will update this one as at the time of posting it is still processing on YT)

Please help me with this, I don't understand why this happened all of a sudden, maybe the logs have clues or you know what the issue is from the visual examples. Thanks guys.

- MrBayeasy

 

[Narcogen]

What setting for clock sync are you using in your NDI sources?

 

[MrBayeasy]

What setting for clock sync are you using in your NDI sources?

Do you mean Network, Internal, or the other one? I'm using Netwotk, for some reason I get bad stuttering using internal, havent tried the other one I forget what its called. I also use the highest bandwidth and I am using Ethernet to connect through router

 

[Narcogen]

I usually use internal. I don't know if the NDI plugin provides a clock source-- either way if you're getting drift you should probably use another method, but the method itself shouldn't cause stutter.

 

[MrBayeasy]

Yeah I thought the same thing too, but low and behold when using internal the gameplay is more choppy than using network. However it wouldnt explain why it randomly started this issue, ive been going weeks with no issues. Did anyone have a look at the logs and or video clip to see the examples, is there anything irregular? I will try reverting back to internal for my upcoming stream, we'll see if it removes it. I guess the last one i could try would be the third option for network sync which is like source timing or something. I really cant remember the name. In the meantime if anyone could be troubled to look at the data I provided I would appteciate it, like I said in my post the first snf second video demonstrate the instance the desync happens, there is absolutely no desync up until that point. Never seen anything like it.

 

[Narcogen]

Nothing of note in the logs. No significant amount of lagged or dropped frames.

A bit of audio buffering from a video capture device, but that's all:

19:44:54.238: adding 21 milliseconds of audio buffering, total audio buffering is now 42 milliseconds (source: Mic/Aux)
19:44:54.699: adding 42 milliseconds of audio buffering, total audio buffering is now 85 milliseconds (source: Video Capture Device 2)
19:44:54.804: adding 85 milliseconds of audio buffering, total audio buffering is now 170 milliseconds (source: Video Capture Device 2)

20:13:28.666: Windows Version: 10.0 Build 17134 (revision: 829; 64-bit)

Windows is out of date and there are some performance problems with that build, but I don't see that problem showing up in your log (rendering lag).

 

[MrBayeasy]

Nothing of note in the logs. No significant amount of lagged or dropped frames.

A bit of audio buffering from a video capture device, but that's all:

19:44:54.238: adding 21 milliseconds of audio buffering, total audio buffering is now 42 milliseconds (source: Mic/Aux)
19:44:54.699: adding 42 milliseconds of audio buffering, total audio buffering is now 85 milliseconds (source: Video Capture Device 2)
19:44:54.804: adding 85 milliseconds of audio buffering, total audio buffering is now 170 milliseconds (source: Video Capture Device 2)

20:13:28.666: Windows Version: 10.0 Build 17134 (revision: 829; 64-bit)

Windows is out of date and there are some performance problems with that build, but I don't see that problem showing up in your log (rendering lag).

Thanks so much for taking a peak into them. I will try the internal sync again, if that doesn't work I will update windows. The next instance I can test this will be tomorrow so I will update then. Also that audio buffering is for my webcam so despite the audio buffering I am not seeing any desync on that device, just the gameplay. I really appreciate the help so far, talk soon.

 

[MrBayeasy]

Nothing of note in the logs. No significant amount of lagged or dropped frames.

A bit of audio buffering from a video capture device, but that's all:

19:44:54.238: adding 21 milliseconds of audio buffering, total audio buffering is now 42 milliseconds (source: Mic/Aux)
19:44:54.699: adding 42 milliseconds of audio buffering, total audio buffering is now 85 milliseconds (source: Video Capture Device 2)
19:44:54.804: adding 85 milliseconds of audio buffering, total audio buffering is now 170 milliseconds (source: Video Capture Device 2)

20:13:28.666: Windows Version: 10.0 Build 17134 (revision: 829; 64-bit)

Windows is out of date and there are some performance problems with that build, but I don't see that problem showing up in your log (rendering lag).

Ok so just finished my stream, upon looking it seems like switching it to Internal fixed the de-sync issue, I would need to stream with it for more than just one day though to make sure its not just a fluke. The only problem is I can visibly see that the gameplay is just not as smooth as syncing through network. Call me crazy but im telling you the video seems to run at like 45ish fps instead of 60 most of the time, where as going through network yielded me smooth 60 for the majority of the stream aside from random short moments (which I think is normal for anything really)

So I have a few questions

1. Is using Hardware Acceleration something that can improve or decrease performance (in my experience it makes things perform better/faster but I'm still asking for the sake of being thorough as I currently have HW Acc on for my video ndi source but not the audio one)
2. If I use HW Acceleration on my video source should I also use it on the accompanying audio source?
3. Does using HW Acceleration do anything to the visual quality of the NDI stream/compression/etc, basically does the image look worse than not using it.

Things i'm still going to try
1. Trying the Source Timing method of syncing to see if I can get the best of both worlds (smoothness and synced)
2. Using HW acceleration for both video and audio
3. Maybe try disabling "use device timestamps" on the gaming rig's OBS NDI audio output (although I am super skeptical about this one because I feel like that should help if anything)

Also for clarification the de-sync used to happen no matter whether I used network or internal a long time ago, however I followed the advice of a video and added a dedicated NDI audio source only for the gameplay audio that seemed to have fixed it back then, so I have NDI video and NDI audio sources. Each is separate but taking from the same piece if you will.

Here is a link to the stream I just had, if you compare it to my previous stream you can see the difference in smoothness. I would just jump to a random time either near the middle/end or end of both videos to compare
Most recent Stream (Internal Sync): https://youtu.be/ydathO225ds?t=3214
Stream before that (Network Sync): https://youtu.be/cCAKLYTD_44?t=11646

I really really appreciate you and anyone else looking into this for me, please check the vids for examples of differing smoothness, I know that its a thing and I don't know why it happens.

 

[MrBayeasy]

The videos are now updated with timestamped links to show examples, but skip around on both to see what I mean. There is micro stutter and lower fps on the internal synced clip. Oddly enough it seems to be more evident on my recorded file on my hard drive than on the stream (it still matters to me though because I use my recorded content for videos) however I can still see it in the Stream VOD too, its not like its completely gone on stream but there on the recording. Could have something to do with the websites compression, not sure.

 

[MrBayeasy]

Bump

 

[Narcogen]

2. If I use HW Acceleration on my video source should I also use it on the accompanying audio source?

Can you explain this in more detail? Are these two separate sources that are supposed to be synced?

 

[Narcogen]

3. Maybe try disabling "use device timestamps" on the gaming rig's OBS NDI audio output (although I am super skeptical about this one because I feel like that should help if anything)

I also feel like it should but I have never used this. I am not sure if the output of the NDI plugin in OBS is providing timestamps.

Occasionally, when preparing to start a stream, I can see that an NDI source's audio and video are out of sync. Usually resetting the source or restarting OBS fixes it, and then it usually stays in sync at least long enough for a 3-4 hour streaming session (usually).

 

[MrBayeasy]

So I had terrible desync a long time ago, what I ended up doing to fix the issue was have my normal ndi video source come through, then muting it and creating another ndi source for my audio from the gaming rig. So I have the video of my gaming rig, with the audio muted, and a dedicated source for the audio of my gaming rig. I didnt think it would work back then, but it did.

 

[MrBayeasy]

So would you suggest that I just quickly close obs and then open it every like 1.5-2h or something. Is there no way to have it synced the whole time?

 

[Narcogen]

If those stay in sync it would be coincidental. And having a second source with duplicate material is just creating more load.

 

[MrBayeasy]

I will try removing it again, its just that before I did this it would desync much earlier like towards the beginning of the stream in some instances, but I'll try it again. Today I'm trying the same set up but with source timing sync. Post again soon.

 

[MrBayeasy]

Ok so after a few more streams:

I used Source Timing, it seemed to have the same-ish smoothness as Network Sync but also had de-sync

Tried using Internal Sync again, again no de-sync but BAM stutters and often times looks like sub 60fps

So far it seems as though the only thing that completely eliminates De-Sync is internal Sync, however I feel like I have to trade off nice smooth gameplay for no de-sync which kind of sucks.

I might just have to restart the gaming rigs OBS NDI output every 1.5-2hrs or so to hopefully remove the de-sync whilst using Network Syncing since that seems to be the only way to have smooth gameplay and *potentially* no de-sync. Has no one EVER had worse performance/visuals in the way I'm describing while using other syncing methods. I dont understand why Internal is the ONLY one that has this problem...so frustrating.

The logs say nothing, barely any dropped frames aside from a handful out of hundreds of thousands. I'm really at a loss here, NDI is so good when it works but I can't get it to just WORK.

 

[Narcogen]

How is network performance/stability? I wonder if it is on the edge of what NDI wants for your feed, and that's why the choice of sync source is just a choice between two problems: desync or stutter.

If you select lowest quality on the client source for the NDI feed, does the problem persist, or go away?

 

[MrBayeasy]

How is network performance/stability? I wonder if it is on the edge of what NDI wants for your feed, and that's why the choice of sync source is just a choice between two problems: desync or stutter.

If you select lowest quality on the client source for the NDI feed, does the problem persist, or go away?

Are you refering to the bandwidth section of an OBS NDI source? I will try that option out, however how does that affect the visible image quality, will selecting lowest affect it somehow or what is that setting about? Also this setting only exists on the reciving end of OBS NDI (streaming rig) not the output OBS NDI (gaming rig) correct?

 

[Narcogen]

This setting is only on the receiving computer.

Yes, it lowers quality.

I am attempting to ascertain whether you have a problem that causes audio and video to desync regardless of bandwidth, or whether it is possible that the high bandwidth signal goes out of sync while the low one does not, which might potentially indicate the problem is insufficient bandwidth.