Not technically OBS related though it is used. Streaming/Audio issue w/uploading

HelloIT

New Member
The church I assist wants to upload sermons directly to their website, but I’ve run into some issues. Currently, they record sermons using OBS, and the output is in MKV format. I’ve written a script to convert and compress the MKV files into MP3/MP4 formats. When I uploaded a test sermon (164,000MB MP3) directly to their site (from home wifi), it led to a “page can’t be displayed” error for over 20 minutes, but I was able to access the live site through a different browser and confirm that the file uploaded. However, I couldn’t log into the admin side again until I switched to a VPN. Eventually, my IP was blocked, and it took some time to reflect the file’s removal from the page.

I contacted the web provider about the upload issue, and they suggested I compress the file further, stating that 164MB is large for uploads, and that switching IPs via VPN could trigger security measures. I compressed several MP3 and MP4 versions of the sermon with smaller file sizes (ranging from 103,436KB to 156,338KB), and their response was that large file uploads negatively impact site speed and performance. This didn’t sit right with me, as uploading an MP3 should not be that difficult.

I also noticed their “live streaming” service package includes 15GB video archive and 250GB monthly bandwidth, which doesn’t seem adequate for video or audio storage. Given that the church doesn’t do video right now (and doesn’t have that live streaming package), I wonder if the web provider’s backend might not be optimized for file uploads.

As an alternative, I started testing Sermon.net, which converts and hosts the audio during live streams, allowing me to later trim and upload the content. I’ve tested the plugin on the church’s site, and it works fine, but I still have questions:

  1. Why can’t I just upload directly to the site without using Sermon.net?
  2. Sermon.net offers a separate service, and I like the idea of not relying entirely on the web provider, but I’m uncertain about the best approach. (we are still testing and I don’t know if the church wants to go this route due to money etc.)
  3. I’m relatively new to audio streaming and uploading MP3s, and I need help pinpointing where the issue lies. I’m the only IT person involved and don’t have a dedicated server, just a standard PC and internet connection.
I’d appreciate any insights or help to streamline this process.
 

AaronD

Active Member
...the output is in MKV format. I’ve written a script to convert and compress the MKV files into MP3/MP4 formats...
OBS does this natively. File -> Remux...
It can even be automatic. Settings -> Advanced -> Recording

When I uploaded a test sermon (164,000MB MP3) directly to their site (from home wifi), it led to a “page can’t be displayed” error for over 20 minutes, but I was able to access the live site through a different browser and confirm that the file uploaded. However, I couldn’t log into the admin side again until I switched to a VPN. Eventually, my IP was blocked, and it took some time to reflect the file’s removal from the page.

I contacted the web provider about the upload issue, and they suggested I compress the file further, stating that 164MB is large for uploads, and that switching IPs via VPN could trigger security measures. I compressed several MP3 and MP4 versions of the sermon with smaller file sizes (ranging from 103,436KB to 156,338KB), and their response was that large file uploads negatively impact site speed and performance. This didn’t sit right with me, as uploading an MP3 should not be that difficult.

I also noticed their “live streaming” service package includes 15GB video archive and 250GB monthly bandwidth, which doesn’t seem adequate for video or audio storage. Given that the church doesn’t do video right now (and doesn’t have that live streaming package), I wonder if the web provider’s backend might not be optimized for file uploads.

...
Sounds like the web host doesn't like video. Have you looked at YouTube, or Vimeo, or some of the other video sites? Put it there, and then embed it in the church's page. That way, the church's host doesn't actually have it, but the video still plays in that spot on the page, directly from YouTube or wherever it actually is.

And, YT at least (probably everyone else too) takes MKV directly. No need to convert at all. Or you can stream with the DVR option turned on, and have YT record it for you. Still keep a local recording though, in case the network goes nuts, so you still have something to upload later.
 

bcoyle

Member
OBS does this natively. File -> Remux...
It can even be automatic. Settings -> Advanced -> Recording


Sounds like the web host doesn't like video. Have you looked at YouTube, or Vimeo, or some of the other video sites? Put it there, and then embed it in the church's page. That way, the church's host doesn't actually have it, but the video still plays in that spot on the page, directly from YouTube or wherever it actually is.

And, YT at least (probably everyone else too) takes MKV directly. No need to convert at all. Or you can stream with the DVR option turned on, and have YT record it for you. Still keep a local recording though, in case the network goes nuts, so you still have something to upload later.
great advice.
 

bcoyle

Member
The church I assist wants to upload sermons directly to their website, but I’ve run into some issues. Currently, they record sermons using OBS, and the output is in MKV format. I’ve written a script to convert and compress the MKV files into MP3/MP4 formats. When I uploaded a test sermon (164,000MB MP3) directly to their site (from home wifi), it led to a “page can’t be displayed” error for over 20 minutes, but I was able to access the live site through a different browser and confirm that the file uploaded. However, I couldn’t log into the admin side again until I switched to a VPN. Eventually, my IP was blocked, and it took some time to reflect the file’s removal from the page.

I contacted the web provider about the upload issue, and they suggested I compress the file further, stating that 164MB is large for uploads, and that switching IPs via VPN could trigger security measures. I compressed several MP3 and MP4 versions of the sermon with smaller file sizes (ranging from 103,436KB to 156,338KB), and their response was that large file uploads negatively impact site speed and performance. This didn’t sit right with me, as uploading an MP3 should not be that difficult.

I also noticed their “live streaming” service package includes 15GB video archive and 250GB monthly bandwidth, which doesn’t seem adequate for video or audio storage. Given that the church doesn’t do video right now (and doesn’t have that live streaming package), I wonder if the web provider’s backend might not be optimized for file uploads.

As an alternative, I started testing Sermon.net, which converts and hosts the audio during live streams, allowing me to later trim and upload the content. I’ve tested the plugin on the church’s site, and it works fine, but I still have questions:

  1. Why can’t I just upload directly to the site without using Sermon.net?
  2. Sermon.net offers a separate service, and I like the idea of not relying entirely on the web provider, but I’m uncertain about the best approach. (we are still testing and I don’t know if the church wants to go this route due to money etc.)
  3. I’m relatively new to audio streaming and uploading MP3s, and I need help pinpointing where the issue lies. I’m the only IT person involved and don’t have a dedicated server, just a standard PC and internet connection.
I’d appreciate any insights or help to streamline this process.
Hi. Our church does exactly what arrond saids. We live stream to youtube. We record locally. We have 2 services and have separate youtube streams for the 9 and 10:30 service. They are dvr'ed on youtube for people to watch later. At the end of the 2 service, the directory deletes one of the 2 youtube versions. They trim the local video and upload it to the church site (i think). they just may point to th youtube copy??
 

HelloIT

New Member
Hi. Our church does exactly what arrond saids. We live stream to youtube. We record locally. We have 2 services and have separate youtube streams for the 9 and 10:30 service. They are dvr'ed on youtube for people to watch later. At the end of the 2 service, the directory deletes one of the 2 youtube versions. They trim the local video and upload it to the church site (i think). they just may point to th youtube copy??
OBS does this natively. File -> Remux...
It can even be automatic. Settings -> Advanced -> Recording


Sounds like the web host doesn't like video. Have you looked at YouTube, or Vimeo, or some of the other video sites? Put it there, and then embed it in the church's page. That way, the church's host doesn't actually have it, but the video still plays in that spot on the page, directly from YouTube or wherever it actually is.

And, YT at least (probably everyone else too) takes MKV directly. No need to convert at all. Or you can stream with the DVR option turned on, and have YT record it for you. Still keep a local recording though, in case the network goes nuts, so you still have something to upload late


Thank you both for the reply. Currently we only record audio. We don't video record anything. Maybe in the future we will but right now we dont. I know i have to think forward thinking so I am trying to find some probably 3rd party that we can use now for recording and grow into when we do video (if we get there). We don't want to stream to Youtube or Facebook. Specifically we only want the sermons on our church website. Nothing else, which is why I have been trying to look for 3rd party options as I am realizing now uploading a sermon directly to our site doesn't seem to be a real option.

I have tried sermon.net and we can have it record our live stream and i can go in and edit it and then publish it. They actually set it up (test run) so if we upload .mkv it automatically converts it into a mp3/mp4 for the site. I just have to trim it.

@AaronD
@bcoyle
I will look into changing the output from mkv to mp3 as you suggested. It took me 6 months to figure out how to get us to record because long story short, it isn't setup properly as it should so i was concerned in changing any of the settings. I will change the setting and see how it goes.

The webhost has a livestream package as mentioned but we don't have that package because we only record audio right now. I didn't realize that 164mb is a big file in the audio world as I was thinking more in the IT world files are Gigs that are big.

I am new to this streaming thing so I don't necessarly know what to look out for or avoid.

One of my concerns is being flagged (if there was music playing in the background) which as i said we aren't setup properly so we get everything on the recording there is no seperate audio source, its all or nothing.
 

AaronD

Active Member
...it isn't setup properly as it should so i was concerned in changing any of the settings...
The default settings are more for testing a fresh installation that knows nothing, than they are for actual production.

The trap that catches the most people (though certainly not the only one) is the Desktop Audio and Mic/Aux (Settings -> Audio) both being set to "Default" by default:
  • That captures whatever device you're most likely to be using at the moment, for both mic and speakers, and shows immediately that the audio system is in fact working.
  • But then people complain about their audio getting "contaminated" with stuff they never use (because they never Disabled that source), or about OBS just suddenly not working anymore (because the "Default" setting follows the operating system's automatic selection, which can and does change, and now that source in OBS is looking at a different device). In both cases, they say it's OBS's fault because "they didn't change anything."
You *have* to change things, to make OBS work for *you*. It's so versatile that no set of default settings works for more than just a handful of people, and the rest are going to have the same sort of problems regardless. So the defaults are set for testing, and not for any particular use at all.

I am new to this streaming thing so I don't necessarly know what to look out for or avoid.

One of my concerns is being flagged (if there was music playing in the background) which as i said we aren't setup properly so we get everything on the recording there is no seperate audio source, its all or nothing.
Ah yes, copyright. There's the law itself, and then there's the hosting platforms that insulate ignorant kid uploaders from getting destroyed to make examples to everyone else. Much better to simply be banned and have your stuff taken down, than to also have your life savings taken away.

Thankfully, if you do follow the law, and provide evidence of it that the platform can see, it usually works. Yes, it's mostly enforced by bots that are still pretty stupid, and so there's always the risk of a false copyright claim. But as much as I've seen people complain about it, and demonstrate on themselves how it does in fact work and how bad it is, the church that I serve hasn't really had a problem.

The U.S. Federal Law says that a "Religious Service" is except from copyright, but ONLY for the "Performance" of Music, *within the Service itself*. Lots of legally-defined terms there, to avoid loopholes, and it effectively amounts to a 1950's Country Chapel, with a live pianist and physical hymnals, and pretty much nothing else.
As an interesting side-note, "Separation of Church and State" means that this law covers ALL music. Period. So if you wanted to play Metallica or AC/DC in church, that's legal too! (the Elders might want a word with you, but the Feds are okay)

That law didn't have to account for lyrics, because the license for those was included in the purchase price of the hymnals. So if you project lyrics in the sanctuary, or print them on a handout yourself, you need a buy a license for that. This is the CCLI license that pretty much everyone has now. You probably do too.

And, the law also does not account for streaming or replay later, at all. You're just like a commercial TV or radio station at that point. No special protection at all, and so you have to have permission/licensing for *everything*! I think the law needs to be updated from the 1950's Chapel, to what churches actually do today, but so far it hasn't.

All that to say that you need to be licensed to stream music, and make sure the hosting platform knows that, and then you can stream music. Likewise for anything else that is not directly original to you. CCLI has more licenses than just the ubiquitous lyric one, or you can shop around too. They're not the only player here.

For what we do, it was enough to add the CCLI streaming license to the lyric license that we already had from them, and put both of those license numbers in the description of the stream. And then educate the leadership about copyright, and why I kept muting the kids' showcase... (That song wasn't included in CCLI's whitelist, and they didn't get special permission for it either. It was okay for the in-person service, per the Federal Law directly, but not allowed to stream.)

...we get everything on the recording there is no seperate audio source, its all or nothing.
The live rig has to be set up with streaming and/or post production in mind. If you don't capture it right, you're stuck with what you got. As I'm sure you know, you can't unmix...

We ended up replacing our analog sound board that was original to the building in 1999 or 2000 or so, with digital, mostly for the stream. The old Mackie SR24 was actually still working perfectly as-designed, after 20 years, except for one dirty switch contact that was easily fixed (it was in an insert jack, so I made a dummy "loopback" plug to stuff in it). It just wasn't adequate to make a decent stream mix in addition to the live mix. So we replaced the cheap, ubiquitous, weird analog board with the cheap, ubiquitous, weird digital board: a Behringer X32.

Front-of-House works like you'd expect. A bit of a learning curve of course - different brand with slightly different philosophy, far more capability, and not everything visible at once - but it wasn't too hard to get the hang of.

The stream is a post-fade aux send, using two busses, stereo-linked, and controlled remotely. (digital boards can do that!) Post-fade inherits whatever tweaks the FOH Engineer does live, which is usually what the stream needs too, but keeps the ability to offset from that and add things that don't need amplification in-person at all.
For example, our drums are entirely acoustic to the room. No need for mics at all for just that. But we have a kick mic and two overheads that feed the stream, so they don't get lost there. Those mics don't go to the FOH system at all.

That aux mix then goes through some compression and limiting (still in the digital board), so that the actual output from the board is completely finished and ready to broadcast as-is. Short hop to a USB line-in (the direct USB connection is reserved for the FOH Engineer's laptop, for multitracking, extra effects, or whatever he wants to do), and OBS just passes that through completely unchanged with no filters whatsoever (*), and no other audio source at all except for the Welcome Video that plays in OBS to announce to the stream that the service is starting now.
(*) Okay, one filter, that is intentionally disabled for most of the stream: I have a Noise Gate in OBS to cut out the analog noise from that short hop when it's supposed to be silent anyway. I disable the gate during the service itself, because the noise coming and going is more distracting than having it constant. Once I finally get around to fixing the analog noise, I can delete that altogether.

That's a grossly simplified version, but it hits all the highlights.
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
I didn't realize that 164mb is a big file in the audio world as I was thinking more in the IT world files are Gigs that are big.
164MB Audio file is humungous. My 75-80 min 1080p service Video Recordings (auto-remuxed to MP4s) are in the 11+GB range... but an audio file is often single digit MB, unless lossless audio (which this isn't the use case for)... so yea, those Sermon only Audio files should be a tiny fraction of that size

And for a Hosting company, primary cost drivers are usually bandwidth and storage, so yea, file size optimization is key for a typical web hosting package. Once you get into video, either plan to spend a fair amount on self-hosting the video files, or plan to host them elsewhere. Personally, I detest our video hosting CDN (content delivery network) BUT, that was (and is) the social media platform the community was already using, so using for the videos as well made sense (and I livestream in a specific manner that means a login is not required to view the live video on that platform, logins only required for commenting). Because almost all consumer CDNs (especially the 'free' ones) highly compress the video, I Record at about 3X the bitrate that we Stream, so that if a Wedding, Baptism, Sermon snippet, etc video is desired, we have a good quality video of that vs the overly compressed CDN version

I am new to this streaming thing so I don't necessarly know what to look out for or avoid.
One of my concerns is being flagged (if there was music playing in the background) which as i said we aren't setup properly so we get everything on the recording there is no seperate audio source, its all or nothing.
Aaron went into detail... all good stuff.

Short-version - copyright issues are HUGE and can get you into a LOT of trouble... many folks (lockdown start 5 years ago) ignored copyright considerations and suffered as a result (channels blocked, etc). Ex. A music industry lawyer contacts your domain host and all of the sudden your hosting content is all gone. and stays gone. can happen (worst case scenario, granted, but not out of range of possibility)

We are fine as we only use a live choir and pipe organ/piano (no artist recordings), of licensed Hymnal music. No modern/pop music, etc. And we purchased livestream rights to hymnal music, post license details with every service stream, etc. But other service styles... whole other copyright issue (and a lot of it won't fly if you make video publicly available (any platform) ... with livestream platform more automated in flagging violations.) In 5 years, we've had a couple of false flag's on copyright (one a few months ago), quickly disputed and flags removed.

Realistically, if looking at livestreaming and/or making video (or even audio) available on a public web site, the FIRST thing to do is have someone at your church come up to speed on music copyright implications (probably should be church's music director, as it will be their responsibility). Skip this step, and you'll have nothing but trouble.
Once your church understands the copyright issues, THEN (and only then) can you get into both what gets played/performed, how it is captured (audio and video), and if your church will go get appropriate license(s), or 'filter' out the problematic audio (ie don't include that audio in livestream/captured mix, vs front of house.... recognizing that depending on Front-of-House audio setup (ie music you don't want captured) all Mic's will pick it up to some extent, and may get 'captured' anyway (depending on specifics of audio setup). bottom line.. gets tricky if you try to go the non-license route for every bit of music played/performed.. don't expect it to be cheap/easy and look/sound good. Some folks, not having the budget, equipment, inclination, trained staff/volunteers, etc. simply don't Record/Stream anything that has copyrighted content... but that has its own implications... especially if your starting plan is Sermon only content, and something copyrighted is played during the Sermon?

And then there are the service style that include video screens and slide show and/or video, that may have their own copyright considerations for video capture of a service
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
I will look into changing the output from mkv to mp3 as you suggested. It took me 6 months to figure out how to get us to record because long story short, it isn't setup properly as it should so i was concerned in changing any of the settings. I will change the setting and see how it goes.
One thing to be planning for now, if not already there, is the end-of-life for Windows 10 this Fall '25. I'm dreading the standard MS every-other desktop OS disaster of last 25+ years... of which Win11 is right in line with... but having a Win10 Internet connected computer without advanced IT security things in advance (typically more expensive than new computer) is a recipe for a mess ...

So, if your computer is new enough to upgrade, you'll want a plan to do an entire disk backup, OS and (required) application upgrades (better yet fresh install, but I get why folks will often prefer to avoid a fresh install, though doing so usually trades up-front hassle for ongoing larger hassle).
I mention this, as understanding settings (OS, OBS Studio, audio physical interface, etc) will likely be required, because things will change if not on Win11 already
 

AaronD

Active Member
...depending on Front-of-House audio setup (ie music you don't want captured) all Mic's will pick it up to some extent, and may get 'captured' anyway...
I almost mentioned this in my previous post, but it got to be a lot already!

But yes, this is also true. Live audio bleeds all over everywhere! Every mic has everything in it. It's only a matter of *how much* it has of each thing. For live work, that's fine. The other stuff is low enough to be drowned out by the "correct" mic for each of those things, and vice versa. But it makes it difficult to figure out which mic is feeding back (*all* of them have that ring, just because it's in the air), and impossible to remove a backing track while keeping a live mic open.

So yes, our kids' showcases were *completely* silent on the stream, until we *all* got the message about copyright.

...end-of-life for Windows 10 this Fall '25...
...Win11...
...having a Win10 Internet connected computer without advanced IT security things in advance (typically more expensive than new computer) is a recipe for a mess ...
Yes again.

I've heard in several places that Micro$haft is creating far more Linux users now, than perhaps anything or anyone else ever has, by baking spyware into Windows itself and making it increasingly difficult to remove or disable. Lots of people absolutely refuse to touch Win11 for that reason, and are using this last remaining time to find a suitable Linux distribution and get up to speed on it.

Personally, I like Ubuntu Studio:
  • It's Ubuntu, which has a massive support structure behind it, both community and paid.
    • I've never used the paid option. The community is awesome!
  • UStudio specifically, has a realtime kernel, so it handles live media exceptionally well, compared to most distros.
  • UStudio specifically, also has a TON of media and creative apps preinstalled and already working, so you don't have the headaches of a new user trying to make stuff work in the first place, on an unfamiliar platform. OBS is one of those preinstalled apps.
    • Of course, if you want to do it *well*, then you'll need to get familiar with how this platform actually works, and use those details to your advantage. But to just "install it and go", it's probably the most turn-key way to do that. You'll grow into it as you use it.
All of my rigs run on Ubuntu Studio, including both personal and several churches that I support.
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
  1. Why can’t I just upload directly to the site without using Sermon.net?
first - depends on target host.. that isn't a general question. But, clearly this hosting provider is NOT designed for larger files and as Arron noted, not wanting customers to do video hosting (you are right 15GB wouldn't even come close... Assuming wanting to keep years of services online, you could easily be in the TB range (I am)
Though I suspect, if you had appropriately sized audio files for Sermon only, likely (as mentioned previously in the single digit MB range), you'd have no issues directly uploading to your host provider

2. I’m relatively new to audio streaming and uploading MP3s, and I need help pinpointing where the issue lies. I’m the only IT person involved and don’t have a dedicated server, just a standard PC and internet connection.

But getting to basics... OBS Studio is wrong tool for Recording audio only (using a Tank as a fly-swatter, ie complete overkill). Now, if you are Recording video, and wanting to upload ONLY the audio portion, then OBS Studio to composite the video could make sense (maybe, depends on specific use case). there are numerous tools to grab audio out of a video file (though I don't use any of them, so can't comment on a specific recommendation).
We are planning to start having Sermon video links.. the issue being our CDN doesn't offer video Chapter markers on livestreamed video (Urgh, make me annoyed .. but free service... so... ... so we'll have to decide whether to use AVIDEMUX to trim out Sermon video and upload it as well to same CDN (extra time to create and upload the video) or with same amount of time, host video on alternate CDN to expand marketing reach?? fortunately for me, that isn't an IT question, so I'm declining to make that choice for the parish

And then I can't tell from your post - are you wanting to livestream your audio, or simply have (a portion of) the audio available for later listening (as that is an entirely different workflow and has different tool implications)
 

AaronD

Active Member
...grab audio out of a video file (though I don't use any of them, so can't comment on a specific recommendation)...
On Linux:
ffmpeg -i "video.file" -vn -acodec copy "audio.file"
You can google that to see what the options mean, but suffice it to say here, that it copies the soundtrack into its own file, as-is, without re-encoding.

On any platform, Audacity (free) with the FFMPEG plugin installed separately (also free, and can't be bundled for licensing reasons), can have a video file dropped into it, and take the soundtrack from it. Now you can do anything with it that Audacity can do.
 

bcoyle

Member
On Linux:
ffmpeg -i "video.file" -vn -acodec copy "audio.file"
You can google that to see what the options mean, but suffice it to say here, that it copies the soundtrack into its own file, as-is, without re-encoding.

On any platform, Audacity (free) with the FFMPEG plugin installed separately (also free, and can't be bundled for licensing reasons), can have a video file dropped into it, and take the soundtrack from it. Now you can do anything with it that Audacity can do.
You know Arron, you are a great resource and I think deserve thanks for the time and effort you put into you detailed help. Thank You
 
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