DJ stream audio crap / crash

[Darude]

Hi guys! I’m in quite a pickle and I don’t know what is causing it. I can’t 100% blame any single gadget or software in my system, but it’s a stream-crippling thing and I need to find out what’s going on, what causes this audio issue / buffer overrun / conflict of some sort. In short, often about an hour into my DJ set stream my sound goes to choppy bitcrushed crap, then dies. My MacBook Pro 2018 based setup is not the most simple, but it's logical once you look it thru, and works day to day otherwise when producting music or editing video; only DJ streams involving Traktor and DJM-900nxs2 and external display (!) are affected.

This is the first time me posting here, so I don't know how much info is good to post in the post? I've got all the things I can think of, some video of the sound issues happening, OBS logs, system schematic in a Dropbox folder and a full text describing the issue. It's long, so I'll only post/edit it all here, if it all should be here.

The folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t4u8adblcl8rk2m/AAB7WggfKL1Y4vTVnmHS7XMXa?dl=0

Short description: When I stream I use an ATEM Mini Pro to bring in my cameras to OBS streaming software and a Pioneer DJM-900nxs2 also connected to the computer + two DJ controllers, Native Instruments X1mk2 and F1, via an Apple USB-C > USB A adapter connecting a USB hub for the 3 USB devices. The DJ mixer acts as an audio interface for Traktor, my DJ software of choice, and I take the audio from the mixer with analog cables to the ATEM Mini Pro audio input. I’ve used the DJ-mixer and the controllers hundreds of times at my live gigs like this, no issues. As a test I’ve played now several sets without the dock (and LaCie drive and screen) connected and have had zero issues. Connecting the dock -> some time in the stream the people start hearing first crackling, then the sound goes all the way to sh*t.

Please check out the document in the folder and feel free to ask further questions! Thanks, if you read this far and if you can help, or point me to someone who could!

Ville

 

[Darude]

I would like to bring this up again as I have new info:
Two weeks ago, Sept 18th, I played a two+ hour stream set without any issues. I had only the Pioneer mixer and NI controllers connected (as usual via the Sabrent USB hub via Apple USB-C > USB A adapter) and the ATEM Mini Pro directly via USB-C, plus an Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport adapter > Apple USB A to Ethernet adapter for internet. Nothing connected to the AV Multiport HDMI and I powered the laptop thru it with the laptops own power brick. On the laptop I had Traktor, ATEM Software Control and Safari (for Restream page open in the background) and Triode’s Now Playing app, which pulls metadata out of Traktor’s (dummy) Icecast broadcast which can be shown in OBS as browser source via WebSocket. I’ve had that app now for like a month and the issues were there before it. I also had Twitch Alerts on this time. I’ve had these issues happen with and without them.

Last Friday, Oct 2nd, I used exactly the same combo, the only *difference this time* was that I had Touch Portal running on the laptop as well, and on my iPhone (an old 5). Now, I’m not saying TP surely causes the sound issues, but it definitely seems like it plays some kind of part, as I added TP and Companion when I came back from my summer holiday back to the studio and that’s when the issues started. I’ve not even thought of TP (or Companion, but I haven’t used Companion in the last few streams at all, because I have the ATEM Mini Pro close to me, I don’t need remote control that much, so I’ve not used it to cut out that possibility) being the culprit as the amount of data it transfers in the network is so minimal, as far as I understand and doesn’t directly have anything to do with sounds. I don’t trigger anything sound related DIFFERENT in OBS with it, just scene changes that I would otherwise do manually by mouse/trackpad or key commands. I know A LOT of people use TP all the time and I have not heard of similar issues connected to it. Still, that’s the ONLY difference as far as I can tell between these two last streams. https://www.dropbox.com/s/e9mr0nwih5phzbl/201002 sound cut out 55min.mov?dl=0

I don’t know if it’s obvious from the videos, but when the crap happens, the music continues in my headphones, which are connected to the Pioneer DJ-mixer, so the issue is AFTER the mixer, as far as logic tells me. In different context I HAVE had driver/firmware issues with Pioneer + Traktor in the past and that cripples the mixer and you REALLY hear it in the headphones or the master out, and this is not it. So that leaves the AMP and OBS, the crap happens there somewhere. I am in idiot, as I didn’t realize to look at the ATEM Software Control this time, whether there was sound coming in and going out in the ATEM Fairlight mixer meters :/ In the OBS mixer the ATEM audio capture was not showing anything, and that how it’s been before, too. Restarting OBS didn’t solve it, so I rebooted the machine as well as powercycled the AMP and was good to do another hour+.

Included are log files of the stream the sound crap happened and the restarted one, where I had no issues.

 

[InteractiveDNA]

Hi guys! I’m in quite a pickle and I don’t know what is causing it. I can’t 100% blame any single gadget or software in my system, but it’s a stream-crippling thing and I need to find out what’s going on, what causes this audio issue / buffer overrun / conflict of some sort. In short, often about an hour into my DJ set stream my sound goes to choppy bitcrushed crap, then dies. My MacBook Pro 2018 based setup is not the most simple, but it's logical once you look it thru, and works day to day otherwise when producting music or editing video; only DJ streams involving Traktor and DJM-900nxs2 and external display (!) are affected.

This is the first time me posting here, so I don't know how much info is good to post in the post? I've got all the things I can think of, some video of the sound issues happening, OBS logs, system schematic in a Dropbox folder and a full text describing the issue. It's long, so I'll only post/edit it all here, if it all should be here.

The folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t4u8adblcl8rk2m/AAB7WggfKL1Y4vTVnmHS7XMXa?dl=0

Short description: When I stream I use an ATEM Mini Pro to bring in my cameras to OBS streaming software and a Pioneer DJM-900nxs2 also connected to the computer + two DJ controllers, Native Instruments X1mk2 and F1, via an Apple USB-C > USB A adapter connecting a USB hub for the 3 USB devices. The DJ mixer acts as an audio interface for Traktor, my DJ software of choice, and I take the audio from the mixer with analog cables to the ATEM Mini Pro audio input. I’ve used the DJ-mixer and the controllers hundreds of times at my live gigs like this, no issues. As a test I’ve played now several sets without the dock (and LaCie drive and screen) connected and have had zero issues. Connecting the dock -> some time in the stream the people start hearing first crackling, then the sound goes all the way to sh*t.

Please check out the document in the folder and feel free to ask further questions! Thanks, if you read this far and if you can help, or point me to someone who could!

Ville

Use BootCamp and install Windows 10 on your Mac. Say good bye to all problems dealing with multimedia. OBS works perfect with it. I did a video on how to switch control Mini with OBS.

 

[Darude]

Use BootCamp and install Windows 10 on your Mac. Say good bye to all problems dealing with multimedia. OBS works perfect with it. I did a video on how to switch control Mini with OBS.

I appreciate your response, but for various reasons I don’t find it feasible to switch to Windows and it also doesn’t tell me what is happening and why. I do understand there are differences between macOS and Win, and that something might work better on Win, something on macOS, but blindly switching to another OS for streaming only, when I have several Mac-native apps I’m using daily for audio & video and admin work is not workflow wise too appealing. I’m also I guess stubborn and I want to get to the bottom of stuff like this, I’m not happy with “change OS, it works better there”, because it should work now, too, and does work with some variables removed, and also other people have no issues with similar variables.

Where can I find your video on OBS/Mini control?

 

[Darude]

Did another stream. Same exact setup as the other week ie. MBP + DJM-900nxs2 + X1mk2 & F1 via the Sabrent USB hub via Apple USB-C > USB A adapter) and the ATEM Mini Pro directly via USB-C, plus an Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport adapter > Apple USB A to Ethernet adapter for internet. No Touch Portal, no issue. The only difference to last stream with issues is TP. Have been in touch with TP devs, they’ve been great, though no idea if/why/what/how at this point and as TP doesn’t directly do any sound stuff, “it shouldn’t cause anything like this”. I’m not throwing them under the bus here, but leaving out TP on my computer (and iPhone) has resulted in a troublefree stream each time AND these issues did start when I implemented TP in my workflow, so it is involved in something here that triggers the sound crap. I REALLY hope we/they figure this out as I really like what I can do with it, not only remote controlling OBS “normally”, but also Twitch chat interactivity via it.

 

[explorer]

Use BootCamp and install Windows 10 on your Mac. Say good bye to all problems dealing with multimedia. OBS works perfect with it. I did a video on how to switch control Mini with OBS.

I'm also struggling on with the Mac version for now, but noticed a big performance increase when I experimented with BootCamp. Sadly, it seems like OBS for Mac is not very well optimised :-(

 

[Darude]

I'm also struggling on with the Mac version for now, but noticed a big performance increase when I experimented with BootCamp. Sadly, it seems like OBS for Mac is not very well optimised :-(

For me it’s not about performance decrease or increase, CPU is staying rather solid 35% with occasionally touching around 50% and no crazy spiking that I can see, so got a good bit of headroom, my sound issues shouldn’t be cause by that.

 

[Zirkus]

Hi Darude,

Any further insights onto this issue?

I'm running Windows 10 on a MSI GT75VR Titan Pro laptop and had a very similar issue to the beginning of your "200814 stream audio crap.mp4" clip. That clipping sound. I was only recording and not even streaming. Ran fine for 40 minutes and then the clipping started for the rest of the recording.

Using:
DJM900NXS2
2 CDJ-3000s
2 Scenes with 2 cameras


Cheers

Zirkus

 

[Darude]

Zirkus, I’m on a Mac, so don’t know if any of what I’ve found applies to you. I found that having Touch Portal on makes the sound eventually crap out. I’m not claiming Touch Portal directly causes it, but based on dozens of test streams with various setup variations, with all my gear connected and minimal setup, the issue only occurs with TP in the picture. I’ve been in contact with them, but and they’re looking into it, but no solution yet.

 

[JohnBBeta]

Zirkus, I’m on a Mac, so don’t know if any of what I’ve found applies to you. I found that having Touch Portal on makes the sound eventually crap out. I’m not claiming Touch Portal directly causes it, but based on dozens of test streams with various setup variations, with all my gear connected and minimal setup, the issue only occurs with TP in the picture. I’ve been in contact with them, but and they’re looking into it, but no solution yet.

Hey sir - I'm doing some pretty tech-heavy DJ scenes too so happy to chat at some point to see if I've run into similar problems.

Looked at your diagram and it looks like you are running traktor for Djing on the same machine as that which is running OBS and streaming? If so I'd strongly recommend you get a second, dedicated streaming machine. When i stream I have one macbook running serato, and another, high end 2020 i7 MBP running OBS. I close every other background program on that one to give it the best chance to run smoothly.

Put the audio interface source at teh top of the list of any scenes (not had confirmation from devs that they are prioritised in this way but it would make sense).

I also turned off any audio from the streamlabs alerts I was using as that WAS causing me some audio glitching issues. Gone completely now I turned them off - no one wan't to hear 'sandstorm' interrupted by annoying streamlabs alerts anyway right?! ;-)

Another thing that might be an issue - if youre sticking with the one machine streaming - is USB bus overload if theres loads of data flying around.

I'm @JohnBBeta on twitter if you wanna chat - though we seem to have pretty different set ups. I would absolutely recommend a 2 computer set up though if I'm right in assuming you're using only one.

And don't listen to people telling you to run it on windows - I'm running OBS on Catalina, on a MBP, with insanely complicated live visuals, 4 cameras - over 30 scenes sometimes & it handles it fine, 60% CPU is max I've had - and no broadcast jitters - at 1080p30fps and 4800 bitrate.

good luck anyway sir. I'm a DNB guy but always loved your tunes! ;-)

 

[JohnBBeta]

ok just watched video and you have separate streaming computer i see - so disregard a lot of that!

 

[Darude]

Hey sir - I'm doing some pretty tech-heavy DJ scenes too so happy to chat at some point to see if I've run into similar problems.

Looked at your diagram and it looks like you are running traktor for Djing on the same machine as that which is running OBS and streaming? If so I'd strongly recommend you get a second, dedicated streaming machine. When i stream I have one macbook running serato, and another, high end 2020 i7 MBP running OBS. I close every other background program on that one to give it the best chance to run smoothly.

Put the audio interface source at teh top of the list of any scenes (not had confirmation from devs that they are prioritised in this way but it would make sense).

I also turned off any audio from the streamlabs alerts I was using as that WAS causing me some audio glitching issues. Gone completely now I turned them off - no one wan't to hear 'sandstorm' interrupted by annoying streamlabs alerts anyway right?! ;-)

Another thing that might be an issue - if youre sticking with the one machine streaming - is USB bus overload if theres loads of data flying around.

I'm @JohnBBeta on twitter if you wanna chat - though we seem to have pretty different set ups. I would absolutely recommend a 2 computer set up though if I'm right in assuming you're using only one.

And don't listen to people telling you to run it on windows - I'm running OBS on Catalina, on a MBP, with insanely complicated live visuals, 4 cameras - over 30 scenes sometimes & it handles it fine, 60% CPU is max I've had - and no broadcast jitters - at 1080p30fps and 4800 bitrate.

good luck anyway sir. I'm a DNB guy but always loved your tunes! ;-)

John, thanks for your comments!

Actually, I have done both (I've got a 2015 MBP that is powerful enough for basic OBS-ing) but to keep my setup as simple and small, thus as portable as possible I prefer one computer, while I do understand the benefits of a dedicated machine. I guess I'm stubborn like that... In my 2018 MBP case there has never been even close that the machine would choke due to lack of juice, not at least to my knowledge. The crashing has to be something else.

My last couple of streams I've streamed thru the same one computer, HDMI output of OBS to an ATEM Mini Pro which then takes care of the encoding and streaming, so if OBS crashes, the stream is still up and I can just toss a 'BRB!" still on from the AMP and quickly get OBS up and running again and get "only" like half a minute, if that, of dead air. Not pretty, but won't lose the viewers like a total stream stop would.

Also, since I dropped Touch Portal in the fall, for whatever reason, the audio crap has stopped. TP devs say they are looking into it, but as of today no word from them if they're any wiser or if it indeed could be that it causes some audio driver etc conflicts.

My Stream Alert sounds are off.

Btw, now I'm crashing, even though no sound issues, and it looks like my system has the Catalina-introduced(?) browser source issue, though for many it's a startup crash, for me randomly and not at startup. Was fine before Cataline upgrade and 26..0.2. And before you ask, yeah, have tried going back from 26.1.2 to 26.0.2 and won't help. Fruuuustrating.


Hey, sorry for shameless promo, but did you happen to catch my latest remix for Gabriel & Dresden? It's a dnb-ish effort, but I don't claim to be a dnb guy, just something I revisited after a couple of decades ;)

 

[JohnBBeta]

Ah cool. I'll hit you up on twitter to continue this afterwards - I only drop in on these forums every now and then.

I'm runing most recent version of OBS on Mac. and Catalina 15.7 - the most recent version. Only 3rd party OBS plug in I use is 'Advanced Scene Switcher' the latest version.

I do occasionally get crashes with either spinning beachball requiring force quit, or straight up program closing, but that's only ever when I'm doing set-ups and stuff, usually if I've switched between different scenesets (I have several different ones saved to use for different themed streams) - I figure the suddden loading and triggering of so many media files etc makes it choke. Luckily OBS never ever crashes on me when I'm streaming, but I'm super careful to do a few things before I start that I do to give the best chance of avoiding issues:

- Using a dedicated stream-only mac (I use the most powerful 13" MBP you could buy in june 2020).

- Reboot the mac (just a restart seems ok rather than shut down and reboot). Make sure OBS was previously on the correct sceneset and also on a basic scene, ideally the 'stream starting soon' scene which is pretty basic.
- Give it a minute for all auto starting apps to boot - then close any non-essential ones in the panel at the top, Roland cloud, Adobe CC etc etc.

- I have the audio input (in my case I use a spare old serato interface as a USB audio capture device [Denon DS1] - stereo out from the DJ mixer goes into that, and then usb C directly into the mac, to make sure it gets priority, rather than shared though a hub. Also I understand on my mac the left and right side ports are different internal USB hubs so I try to share out the inputs into them based on what I think would be using the most bandwidth.

Good work on the G&D remix too - not bad for someone not used to making DNB! I've always been a fan of their work too - and randomly ended up at a posh little party at Josh's place they were staying at in Miami many moons ago when I managed to tag along with Gareth Emery!

Anyway - will hit you up on twitter so we don't have to bore the rest of the OBS crew with music talk hah!

- I make sure the Audio interface is always the first in the source list of any scenes, in the hope that if the list is involved in any priorities, then the audio is least likely to struggle.

Only audio glitches I had were when the audio from streamlabs alerts were occuring, which come in through the browser source. It was knocking out ALL audio, sounded different from your audio, for me it was more like a CD skipping then silence. Indicating to me a data overload issue rather than maybe a digital clock kinda thing that yours sounded like - maybe a sample-rate conflict or something?

My audio glitch issue was solved by muting streamlabs alerts audio - as you have too. I did notice that on occasions when streaming some similarly complicated stuff where I was using my posh new 2019 mac pro from the studio to run OBS I never had the audio skipping issues, which led me to believe that it may be due to system resources, maybe the brower input just peaking things over - I do know they have had issues with it for people running M1 macs for example so maybe its just a bit of a dodgy integration when it comes to audio...

Anyway - that's my experiences so far - think we're running kinda different set ups so may not be so relavent to you, but its my 'findings' so far at least!